The things that broke society

@Digitcat

– Contraception plays a part in the destruction of the nuclear family directly and indirectly.  This one change took away the common consequences of sexual intercourse therefore allowing people to engage in said behavior at will.  The downstream effects like the “the sexual revolution” harmed society and the family unit as it essentially took away one of the benefits of marriage thereby devaluing it.

– Divorce, I did not list “Divorce”, I listed “no fault divorce”.  2 different things

– Welfare, yes I agree.  I think the initial ideas behind it had good intentions but it was used to essentially enslave. destroy and control people

@DigiCat

The whole “no fault divorce” thing I believe is a description of how the legal system treats and processes divorce.  If I understand it correctly it used to be that a couple would have to essentially petition the local legal system and explain and prove to some degree that there were reasons a marriage failed and could not be continued.  This was done I think to protect the institution of marriage and the children involved.  But when no fault divorce came in you still petition the court but they just sign off on it no matter what more or less and the court’s only function at that point is to work to legally dissolve the marriage financially and split up custody.

@DeGave

Good post.  I agree with almost all of that 1000%.  However I disagree with the “purpose of a system” definition. It’s not at all the purpose or even the intent that matters (something you elude to) but the outcome (again something you mentioned).  In other words people can design a woodchipper to chip wood.  And that is it’s sole purpose.  But I can drop blocks of ice in it and it functions as a pseudo ice chipper. Now that was not at all it’s intent or purpose but that is just what happens when you apply it in that situation.  The same is with divorce obviously.  The system we have was created for whatever reason but the outcome is what we see today where essentially marriage no longer exists outside of the Church.  There is zero point in arguing over it’s intent or purpose or whom it favors or what’s supposed to happen.  The outcome is the outcome.

We can expand that thought process to most of the current issues of society obviously.  For me that leads me to root of the problem.  God and his morality was removed from a country that was founded upon it.  Again, this is not to say everyone has to be a Christian.  This is to say that enough people have to believe in that value system so that there is a moral cohesion in society.  But “the system” has ripped God out of everything to the point of now attacking Christianity openly.  This has been a decades long process.  How’s that system working out for society?

• This reply was modified 1 year, 9 months ago by Vknid.

“God didn’t intend for people to have kids every time they had sex.”

I am sure he didn’t which is why that is not possible nor does it happen that way.  But lets be honest,  the freedom of sexual consequences you are referring to is not about sex within the confines of marriage as God prescribed.  You are talking about sex outside of marriage which is not what God permits.  Plus it’s not as if a couple cannot with a great degree of certainty figure out when they should refrain as to not get pregnant.  And I find it a post modern narrative to validate an act just because it is a human desire that feels good to satisfy.  The left uses that to basically validate everything up to and including pedophilia.

“Contraception simply allows couples to enjoy it with out any risk”

This is simply just not true and is a leftist trope as I see it.  Yes it mostly removes the possibility of pregnancy but it does not remove the risk for anything else related to sex (physical and mental).  And again, pregnancy can usually be avoided if you just refrain at certain times anyway.  Now while different forms of contraception have different risks, most people when you say contraception are thinking about the birth control pill.  In that case you remove risk of pregnancy yes but you add risk to a woman’s body by taking synthetic hormones.

” Imagine the amount of welfare babies we would have without any contraception”

I am sure Margaret Sanger smiled when she read that as such a thought is part of eugenics.

“The human race needs to depopulate”

That is fine and dandy to think but you (nor I) get to make that decision for the rest of the world. And as I have mentioned in other threads I am quite convinced our human problems are not due to overpopulation but mismanagement that is blamed on overpopulation.

In the end we can take these things I mentioned and talk about each one for or against.  But they do not exist in a vacuum.  One lead to another and then to another and so on.  If we look at the effect these changes to society have had over decades I am not at all sure how someone can think they were good.

• This reply was modified 1 year, 9 months ago by Vknid.

“Little biology lesson for you, guess when women are the most horny? When their eggs are ready to be fertilized! Mystery solved to why men are generally more horny than women, sperm always ready to fertilize, egg has a cycle, so nice going, women have to refrain when they’ll likely enjoy sex the most”

Yes I have been married in my life and I am currently solo raising a teenage daughter, I am quite familiar with how it works.

I find it interesting that many younger folks (especially women in my opinion) almost cannot comprehend the very idea of refraining from something you want to do or simply avoiding something you desire.  I will assume you don’t have children because if you did you would be every familiar with that concept.  That is not me being antagonistic but simply saying your reaction in my mind points out that we are in very different stages of life and thus have drastically different perceptions.

Modern society has conned people into blindly believing that if you desire a pleasure you should indulge in it without thought to long term consequences and you should do that because you deserve it.   This started in the 60’s with the “sexual revolution” (something contraception is a part of) and is so engrained now that , just like you did, when you mention refraining from a desire people take it as an insult or an attack and get defensive especially when it relates to something sexual.

People are not animals.  Animals cannot control their instincts and urges but people can. One of the reasons humans have been so successful as a species is because of the concept of delayed gratification.  People have the intellectual capacity to refrain from short term pleasure intentionally so that they can have long-term success. Obviously common examples of this would be saving money or storing food but this goes for many facets of life, sex being one of them. Society was in part built on that concept and now it is falling apart because of it’s absence.

From a religious perspective sex is a gift from God to be shared between a married couple.  And it’s entire purpose is for the creation of life not solely personal pleasure. Not only is it a gift but it is one of the most beautiful and powerful gifts, not because it feels good, but because it creates life.  That is something to be respected and cherished and not degraded down to a few drinks one night and something you barely remember the next day.

But even if you pull religion out of it entirely, prior to the pill, almost all of what I said remained true because (as you stated several times) sexual activity leads to pregnancy.  People were forced to respect the act and to refrain from it because the end result was possibly a child.  Once the pill removed that as a natural consequence respect for sex almost evaporated.

I feel this created a drastic shift in how people thought about sex and viewed the opposite sex and it lead to the other things on my list which as I laid out has all but destroyed sex, marriage, relationships between men and women, and the nuclear family which has rotted away our society.  Now with that said lets not at all forget about the eugenics tie in as it related to contraception and the pill.  Margaret Sanger was instrumental in getting all of that implanted into society and of course we know she was involved in eugenics.  Her most successful foray into getting this to the masses as I understand it was through Planned Parenthood which often are located in neighborhoods where folks are in poverty and very often those are black neighborhoods.

There were sexual issues (primarily poor choices but there was some misinformation as well) before the pill clearly. Post the pill I would say those same problems exist but are FAR worse as the attitudes towards sex have only gotten less concerned with consequences or seeing it as something special.  This has had the downstream consequences of directly and indirectly harming marriage and relationships.

The whole problem with sex for the most part was people not wanting to control themselves and making poor long-term decisions based on wanting to satisfy a short-term desire.  Decoupling reproduction from sex did not change that at all, in fact it only made it far worse and now to the point where the very of mention refraining from sex caused you to become defensive and essentially accuse me of attacking women.

If the pill was the utopia of sexual freedom for women then there would not be nearly 1 million murdered children via abortions every year in this country.  And consider the racial (eugenics) implications. In New York City (in 2018 I believe it was) more black children were murdered through abortion than were born.  Nationally in the USA, while black people are about 13% of the population they account for 39% of the abortions in 2020 and Hispanics were 21%.

The entire paradigm American people live in today in regards to sex, relationships, marriage and the family is absolute unfettered chaos which has resulted in the severe degradation of society. All those decades of radical shifts in policy, attitude and values sold as trinkets of freedom, empowerment and self exploration were absolute lies.  People believed them because, on a personal level, it meant you could do as you pleased.  We stopped thinking to the long-term and focused on the self only and followed the breadcrumbs of pleasure right into a damned jailcell. Now, if you wish to contrast that conclusion of where those things ended up for society with women’s lady parts might not get to tingle as much as possible and consider the latter more important then that is your choice.  But I find that a very narrow, selfish and biased view.

Society does not succeed if just women do well.  Society does not succeed if just men do well.  Society only succeeds if we are successful together.

@Digitcat

Please do not take my wall of text as anything aggressive. I am not attempting to force my opinion I simply wanted to explain myself fully and the stuff we are discussing has been in play since before WW2 so there is much ground to cover.

Also here is a great video about how the sexual revolution was not only not good but not good specifically for women and it is explained by a woman.  I found it enlightening and informative.

• This reply was modified 1 year, 9 months ago by Vknid.