Alex Jones ordered to pay $965M US
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comicsgate.
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- October 22, 2022 at 11:17 am #284539
Clearly the amounts are ridiculous. Given the penchant there seems to be from some to truly crucify this man one has to wonder if he was guilty of defamation. I mean I don’t agree with what he said. I remember when he first said it I thought it was weird and off base. But defamation? A billion dollars?
October 22, 2022 at 1:51 pm #284558@SuperSoynicSpeed
Dude, I didn’t say anything last time because I’m not a fan of Alex Jones at all and I thought his initial comments about Sandy Hook were deeply irresponsible, but at this point you’re just coming off as incredibly spiteful. You’re trying to spin this as though Alex deliberately lied with malicious intent (what with the I find the unfair Amber Heard comparison) and you clearly take some of the shit that he says at face value when it isn’t meant to be. He’s quite obviously playing a character and in this case he ended up believing his own hype to the point that he thought he could say anything he wanted and get away with it.
Does that mean I think he shouldn’t go on trial? Of course not, if the parents really did get harassed/assaulted by fans of Jones’ as a result of his actions, then he needs to apologize and pay punitive charges (the former of which he did. Years ago. Better late than never I suppose, but it’s not like he only walked back on his initial stance very recently, which seems to be what his opponents are asserting). The issue with this trial is that it’s quite evidently a politically-motivated persecution. Paying up to around 1$ billion for mere defamation is rather ridiculous.
It’s insane and obviously not a fair trial at all. When you take the oath you’re meant to say what you believe to be true, even if you might actually be incorrect but don’t know it, but here it seems like the Judge is implicitly threatening Jones to give the jury the answers they want to hear (i.e. “What you think is true doesn’t matter. You need to say what I think is true).”
The whole point of the Justice system (at least when defined by English common law) is to be impartial as possible and make it fair for everyone involved, including the offending party even when they’re found guilty. But this case has quickly devolved into being less about justice for aggrieved parents and their children’s memory, and more about taking advantage of the legal system to castigate a political opponent. It’s just nasty vindictiveness and I don’t think fans and friends of Alex are wrong to feel upset about how he’s being treated despite his fuck-up.
October 22, 2022 at 2:16 pm #284560this is insane! i understand the parents are angry but for so much? alex isnt made of billions
October 22, 2022 at 2:57 pm #284574I believe this is politically motivated. I can remember when ‘Joker’ came out a couple of years ago and immediately the victims and the families of the cinema shooting for ‘The Dark Knight Rises’ back in 2012 were up in arms about this film because of the Joker character being in it. Supposedly. If they’d had such a problem with the character then why hadn’t they not spoken out against anything that’s had the Joker in since such as ‘Suicide Squad’ or the ‘Injustice’ games/comics??? I feel sad for the victims and the families in both cases but at the same time I do wonder if all this was politically motivated.
October 23, 2022 at 3:52 pm #284616I just find it strange that the same people who claim fake rape accusations should be punished and are not protected by freedom of speech now think this is completely outrageous.
The amount sure is huge but if that’s what it takes to take down his platform then so be it. Info Wars isn’t just a silly show where a crazy dude says some weird shit and people laugh at him when it causes sufferage (mentally and physically) and targets individuals. Alex Jones is responsible for what his words cause and the circus gets rightfully shut down.
October 23, 2022 at 4:03 pm #284617- You seem to be a thinker because I can tell you like to try to get beyond the surface. But I personally believe your thought processes are clouded by some serious hatred. You come off absolutely 1 sided. I suggest finding some moderate new sources and or someone who has good balanced conversations. 2 of my favorites are Tim Pool and Styxhexenhammer666.
I used to only consume channels like Crowder etc when I had the edgy ”owning the libs” phase but I started first noticing that many of them (especially Crowder, and obviously AJ) were showing misleading information and statiatics, even blatant lies about things going on outside of America and since his fanbase is mostly these self proclaimed ”patriots” with lacking knowledge of it, they just swallow it all up. He provides the links in his description and sometimes when I check the sources I realize if you read past the headline, it’s not what Crowder claims.
These days I consume information from both sides and make the decision which seems more reasonable or accurate based on that, so I definitely would dare to say I’m less one sided than most of the people on this forum. But I’ve realized that it’s kinda turned upside down when I used to laugh at the weird SJWs complaining about everything but these days I see a lot of snowflake conservatives bitching and moaning about the most irrelevant and minor things in society.
I do watch some Tim Pool (not much tho) and I feel like he often has very weak arguments that are based on wobbly premisses and some insanely stupid takes, for example when he said the reason why he is 35 and single isn’t because of him, it’s because of all the women in the world.
October 23, 2022 at 11:18 pm #284676A false rape accusation is literally what libel is about: accusing another person of a crime they did not commit while knowing they are innocent. Which a fake rape victim obviously knows.
Alex Jones accused the parents of being crisis actors. 1. being a crisis actor isn’t a crime or against the law. 2. Jones may have actually believed it. Most likely he did, since he’s a lunatic who believes all kind of bs.
I don’t see a crime here. It’s not illegal to be wrong. If they arrested every crazy person who spouts nonsense in public, 3/4 of the country would be in prison. The whole trial was nothing but a showtrial, as is par for the course for dictatorships. Jones should have done the smart thing and moved to Russia long ago.
I dunno what people like him, Bannon, Trump etc expect by staying in the US. They’ll all go to prison.
October 24, 2022 at 12:16 am #284679Good post by @wisdom. I didn’t know that it’s not illegal to be a crisis actor.
Also, since psyops on the America public were made legal sometime in the last 15 years, you can’t believe the headlines. https://www.investmentwatchblog.com/the-controversy-surrounding-bill-hr-4310-does-it-give-the-news-media-freedom-to-disseminate-propaganda-to-the-american-people/
Psychological Operations were made legal on American Citizens. The news media can legally lie to you.
October 24, 2022 at 2:52 am #284683“I do watch some Tim Pool (not much tho) and I feel like he often has very weak arguments that are based on wobbly premisses”
Well sometimes sure. But sometimes he has very good arguments. But people don’t watch Timcast simply to find out what he himself thinks. It’s about the discussion they have with lots of different folks. Sure, they posit some things that I consider off base but sometimes I think collectively they hit the nail on the head and come up with very good ideas and probable scenarios.
Crowder is a comedian so if you think you are going to watch his show for hard hitting news you are mistaken. No one should take it that way. His show is comedy with some portion of valid thoughts and some good segments as far as journalism type stuff goes. I do like the “change my mind” often times.
“Owning” the uninformed on any side is relatively easy and a silly “win”. It’s like all the “Ben Shaprio wrecks so and so” or “Charlie Kirk destroys xyz”. Those are of no value and in reality stupid because why wouldn’t a well informed adult who is smart and good on their feet wreck some college student who does not know their butt from a hole in the ground? It’s like if there were videos of Mike Tyson fighting people on the street. Sure, it might be violent but it means nothing. Only people who want to see the violence will watch it.
Now with that said, anytime I have watched any of the right sided shows, while you will detect some bias sometimes I have NOT seen someone like Crowder or anyone else of size outright lie. Same lets say with Fox (which I do not watch) I have not seen any lies but very biased sometimes. We live in a reality where shows (in any format) and news compete for clicks and eyeballs in a 24/7 cycle. So it’s a non-stop sh!tshow of clickbait, exaggeration and bias.
October 25, 2022 at 4:01 am #284777A false rape accusation is literally what libel is about: accusing another person of a crime they did not commit while knowing they are innocent. Which a fake rape victim obviously knows.
well technically rape accusations are not always libel but often times slander as they are spoken words, but anyway, my main point here is that defamation is not only about accusing someone else for a crime. In it’s pure definition it’s about false statements that damage other’s reputation, and in severe cases may cause risk of physical damage. Alex Jones’ words damaged the reputation of the victims’ parents and they suffered from both mental and physical threats. That’s well enough for defamation.
And as far as I know it was clear back when the first verdict came out, which was held in Texas, that he’s gonna be in deep shit because only the Texas verdict was 50 million and the 9 others cases were a in a trial in Connecticut where the penalties are always way harsher.
October 25, 2022 at 4:22 am #284779@Vknid true, I always read the news of the story first and formulate my own opinion and then when I have time I usually watch the takes from both spectrums to see if they have anything to offer or possibility to change my mind.
When it comes to Crowder, there are instances when I’ve noticed him either reporting with a set agenda and showing the arguments that back his narrative but leave out or straight up lie about the things that weaken his arguments. Some examples I remember from the top of my head is him calling for example Finland socialist which it is definitely not. Another example is his insanely inaccurate rant about NATO and how he resists Finland and Sweden joining, about how Finland and Sweden must pay a huge debt for joining after being neutral pretty much for the whole time as NATO isn’t ran by fundings from the countries or have a running tab the countries pay to, the guideline is that every member country should spend 2% of the GDP on their own military to ensure that there are no ”free riders” who don’t have a strong military and only rely on NATO. This argument would work on Sweden as at the moment they are only spending 1,2% so they need to bump up the numbers but Finland is around 3,3% and has ine if the most effective militaries in Europe.
A third one which wasn’t lying but more disingenuous was during the worst mayhem of Covid when he pulled up an article showing 2/3 of Wales population who had positive Covid were vaccinated, while failing to compare it to the fact that 85% of the population was vaccinated. So when I pulled up the source and read a little bit further than the headline, there was statistics which indicated that unvaccinated people over 60 years were twice as likely to get hospitalized and for under 60 years old the number was over 3 times, almost 4 times as big. So it wasn’t straight up lying but rather leaving out a crucial factor to make the article line up with the anti-vaxx agenda.
It’s a classic bluff strategy where he acts bold and confident and puts the articles in the description, relying in the fact that he is charismatic and sounds confident so his audience takes his words and won’t check the sources. I see Crowder’s career progress as how boxers advance, by stacking up easy wins to build up your reputation until you have a good track record. Crowder seems to enjoy talking to college students who doesn’t know how to properly argue to show his audeince how he’s owning some libs but avoids confrontations with people who know their stuff.
October 25, 2022 at 9:42 am #284803October 25, 2022 at 11:22 am #284812Everything you mentioned are not lies but just your disagreement with his opinions. You are allowed your opinion but he is allowed his. Now with that said he does have somewhat of a bias I will admit but he does not claim to be a journalist. He produces what is essentially a comedy show so I am not sure what it is your are expecting.
I disagree very much with John Oliver and Trevor Noah but at the same time I don’t expect hard hitting journalism from them either. They are comedians who talk politics. Crowder is the same although Crowder’s show is about politics more than theirs for sure but they are not all that dissimilar. That is not to say I would excuse any of them for outright lies.
- This reply was modified 2 years, 2 months ago by
Vknid.
October 26, 2022 at 3:12 am #284890Not really. I would count it as a lie rather than a ”different opinion” if I said America is located in Asia. The first two points I explained were just Crowder saying incorrect facts, but maybe he wasn’t lying but just clueless and talking about things he lacks knowledge of. In the third case I said it wasn’t a lie but a disingenuous way of presenting an article to fit it in your narrative. Also I think he is way more politically motivated than the ones you mentioned, his content is like 99% political which was his saving grace after his failed career as a comedian.
But I am glad to hear you at least acknowledge right wing commentators are also biased as there’s an insane amount of people who just shout left wing propaganda and fake news and then gobble up anything Crowder, Alex Jones, Tucker Carlson and WND says and end up in an echo chamber of disinformation.
October 26, 2022 at 4:43 am #284891We will have to agree to disagree on the Crowder thing. One can think Finland is socialist or has socialist tendencies without lying. I see that as an opinion. Your example of content location is not the same thing.
As far as your thoughts on commentary. What you describe is not exclusive to left or right. It’s all around. However you seem to conflate things you disagree with, with “disinformation”. “Disinformation” is intentionally saying things that are not true with the intention of misinforming people. I do not think anyone you mentioned, not even Jones has done this. Does Jones say some silly stuff? Sure, he is similar to Crowder or John Oliver. They talk politics but there intention/purpose is to entertain. This does not mean any of those folks does not hit the nail on the head at times, because they do. That is very different than lying or “disinformation”.
I know I have heard CNN and MSNBC say objective lies on air. I have also heard other leftists talk their side without doing that while making compelling arguments. But that does not mean I think everyone who I disagree with is lying and is putting out disinformation. In general I try not to label or assume. I will hear anyone out. That does not mean I will agree but I will give anyone a chance to get their point across so long as they can do it without shouting.
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