Geeks + Gamers › Forums › Community Hub › Current Events › guns, mass shootings and bad people
I was not going to broach this subject but after a conversation with a liberal friend I decided too.
First off, clearly terrible things are going on in this country and also just as obvious is the fact that these terrible things are being politicized. That whole “never let a crisis go to waste” thing is in full effect. The fact that political parties race to figure out what “side” a criminal is on shows how deep that runs and how sick it is.
But let’s not pretend these mass shootings are going on in vacuum and are not part of something else. Because that is not the case. Crime and especially violent crime is way up in many areas of the country and to the point of breaking society.
Let’s get to it.
Are guns the problem? No. The root of the issue (and this goes for violent crime in general) is that you have an increasing number of people willing to harm and murder others. What tool they use to get that done does not erase that fact.
Now let’s not mince words. Guns are more efficient at harm than a knife or a claw hammer. But that ship has sailed. You are not going to remove the guns in this country and making laws against their use won’t work either because criminals don’t obey laws. Mass shootings are already illegal but they happen.
The root cause(s) is what needs to be addressed. One could easily say mental health is that root and I believe that is indeed part of it. But unless we are willing to call every violent criminal mentally ill we have to realize that a lack of morality is also at the heart of this.
I don’t have the answers but I feel as if I know what the problems are. I am sure many things would help if we could actually start to talk about the real problems and get off the guns issue. I am beyond tired of the dichotomy of “take all the guns” and “arm the entire population”. That is a false choice made my politicians.
Here are some suggestions base on my personal opinion:
– bring back asylums
(it was a mistake to get rid of these to save money and relying on new medications instead has not panned out, this is actually one of Reagan’s great mistakes)
– secure the places that are most important to us
(for example schools should all have at least a small police presence)
– focus law enforcement correctly and appropriately
(stop locking people up over minor non-violent issues but also stop allowing violent criminals free, a workable middle-ground exists)
– stop abusing and demoralizing law enforcement personnel so that you get quality people again and not just those looking for power trips
– finally we need to make strong again the thing that is the cornerstone of society, the family
(we need to emphasize 2 parent households and stop encouraging (through law, courts and welfare) single parents, easy divorce and for God sakes daycare. I don’t care if it’s a man raising his kids or the woman (although a woman is typically better equipped for that job naturally) but letting others raise your kids especially when they are tiny is where the fissure in the family often begins. To some degree this also goes for school.
/rant off
Using mass shootings as an excuse is just propaganda to try and take away people’s guns.
Kari Lake was on Piers Morgan’s show yesterday and despite his attempts to get her to capitulate on her pro-gun stance she stood her ground. Good on her.
The actions of a few wack jobs does NOT mean the rest of law abiding citizens should be robbed of their right to protect their family and property using guns. They should address the root cause of the problem i.e. mental illness.
But we all know what this is about.
It’s EASIER for incompetent leaders to target law-abiding firearm holders to give the ILLUSION they’re doing something rather than rehabilitating mentally ill persons and/or dealing with the economic and sociological issues contributing to such illnesses.
PLUS there’s the added benefit of making it easier to corral the population without resistance.
Sorry DEMonS, that’s not gonna happen.
Someone pointed out we still haven’t seen the Tranifesto from Nashville, but the day this guy went down, we know all his motivations.
Action have consequences and much of the problems today are a direct result of lack of “Consequences” for your actions.
Punishment should happen immediately and have a impact on the person being punished!
A child taking a cookie from the cookie jar is still theft, it should still be punished by the parent and not by a stern talking to but my a swift swat on the behind and then making the child do choirs to repay the theft.
Late in school should be a detention and a call to the parents who then should dole out more punishment at home. Truancy should be expulsion to a State school and yes slap the ankle monitor on them and if they cannot stay straight then, well lock them up in Juvy. And when a child reaches their teens if they commit a criminal act then punish them no different than you would an adult.
When you are an adult and commit a crime you will pay the fine or do the time.
You know we had far fewer issues when Parents actually parented, when Schools could expel and swat children, and when crimes were committed the person was locked up, FEAR of losing your rights and being locked up kept society polite.
Consequences should have swift, immediate and impactful meaning and long lasting meaning at that. This is a failure first and foremost of Parenting, until Parents start doing their jobs again things will not change…. We have more laws than probably any other nation, the laws do not stop the criminals, Prison does and so do Mental facilities. There are people beyond help and they need to be locked away from society, or in the most dangerous of person executed. It was that way for centuries and worked, still works in many other nations.
Nothing will change until those things happen. The past is often a Warning of what happens if you go down route A or B. Looking back to it, is not a bad thing.
Just look at all those DEMon controlled states and cities, that have the strictest gun control laws on the books, and yet they are the ones with the largest number of crimes using firearms. Homicides, murder, gang violence, etc.
Guns are not the problem. Criminals are the problem. The culture of “guns and violence solves everything” is also part of the problem. Not having respect for other’s lives, property, is too part of the problem. Telling people/individuals that it is other’s peoples fault for everything, not taking responsibilities for one’s OWN actions, etc. Having activist prosecutors and activist judges who won’t keep criminals off the streets/out of our neighbourhoods, etc. Allowing mob rule…
And the talk that during an active shooter situations, they need to send in social/mental health workers to try and talk the individual to stop when they have already crossed the borders of sanity and acceptable behaviour, I find laughable.
How the media glorifies the shooters (their name and image are all over the place) while those killed and their mourning families, you will be lucky if they list the names ONCE. Stop naming the criminals (and giving them their fifteen minutes of fame). Make them into the oppressors they are, and treat the TRUE VICTIMS as victims, those that died and the families/communities mourning their loss.
I’m neutral on the whole guns thing. I think people should have the right to own a gun and act in self-defence depending on the situation. I also believe that someone has to be mentally stable in order to have one. We in the UK have VERY strict gun laws; the only people that are allowed to have them are hunters, police and soldiers and even then you STILL need a VERY special licence in order to have one.
I’ve read that when crossbow technology was introduced, some nobles were very unhappy that an untrained peasant could easily use a crossbow to kill a fully-armored noble who’d trained all his life for battle. One noble went so far as to execute anyone found with a crossbow.
Like crossbows, guns are equalizers; they give power to ordinary people. Naturally, the elites hate that, and use any excuse to attack gun ownership.
Ironically, the elites have also demonized the police, and demonstrated beyond the shadow of a doubt that the police aren’t there to save you, thus undermining perhaps the most reasonable-sounding argument against gun ownership: you don’t need guns to defend yourself; the police will protect you.
As an added irony, I’ve also read that women have a physical advantage over men in firearm marksmanship. The average male heart beats more strongly than the average female heart, and thus interferes more with accurate shooting. (I’d also say that since the average male is also larger than the average female, men make easier targets!) One historical example that comes to mind is Annie Oakley, as well as a highly successful cadre of female Soviet snipers in WWII (I can’t remember where they were active; Leningrad, maybe?).
Despite those advantages, and despite woke Hollywood portrayals of kickboxing women taking down much stronger men, I don’t see feminists pushing women to get guns to defend themselves against men. Unlike martial arts, guns would actually scale well to the population, and don’t require a lifetime of special forces training. (Rather, it seems to be right-wing men who love to see women with guns.)
In short, guns can empower women -more- than they empower men. So I conclude anyone against guns is also against empowering women.
Again I think the whole mass shooting thing is used as a political tool. I think we are all agreeing on that.
But the chosen murder tool is not at all the issue. Actually, police and or the justice system is not the issue either (but it does play into it some). The justice system in general does not prevent crime it only reacts to it. So the very root of the problem is that you have so many people willing to hurt other people. The whole thing is not a legal problem it is a social ill that can only be solved by emphasizing the good things in life like family. The reason we are here now is because we have allowed the goverment, certain groups and corporations to not only emphasize the harmful things but also to deemphasize the good things.
Abortion, divorce, globalism, emphasis on the self and short term pleasures and so on have all been pushed through policy and culture all the while ripping out the guts of America the things that actually made it strong.
We must start to heal the social ill or I fear nothing will stop the equity from coming. And that equity is not what they preach but it will be the equal suffering of everyone. And I do mean everyone.
The Left is demonizing the human race as a whole, claiming we’re bad for Nature, that animals are more important than people, that we’re locusts, polluters, etc., and they teach that in public schools. I’m persuaded that the Left’s dishonor of humanity is a significant variable contributing to mass shootings and other violent events.
At the same time, the Left rejects Nature’s fundamental configuration for the human race: that it’s our duty to produce and train our replacements, to sacrifice our preferences, careers, and even lives for the sake of the next generation. Rather, it’s increasingly obvious that the Left wants to be the Last Generation.
When a society rejects the natural duty of self-sacrifice, however, they innately move that burden of sacrifice to the children, who have no choice but to carry it. I don’t get the impression that that’s sustainable; Nature will select against it, and I suspect we’re going to see just how strong the Mama and Papa bear instinct really is.
@Dragonlady
Depending on the group doing it there is between 400 and 500 million guns in the USA… I laugh when I see these estimates, truth is there is no way to know and bigger truth is the numbers are probably double or triple that amount. Reason is simple, there was a time in the country you did not need to register guns (which is a false term to start with) as you do not need to “register your guns” in most places, the numbers are taken from guns purchased yet no one can tell anyone when they started keeping track or how many were bought via kits or as noted passed down.
Here is a fun fact, Americans can and many do own FULLY AUTOMATIC WEAPONS!!!! All you need is to be eligible to own a firearm and fill out the paperwork and pay the “TAX” YUP you have to pay a special tax to own one, that is how the government makes money off them because without the “tax” anyone could buy one from a store. Granted that is simplifying it, but still the truth.
Funny with all those guns laying around more people are not killed daily. Truth is, its not the Gun that is the problem it is the PERSON. Bigger truth even without a gun a person bent on killing will still find a way.
@Roccandil
When it comes to women shooters, not sure where you read that about women. But I can tell you, it is talking about snipers or long range target shooting. It has NOTHING to do with the sex of the shooter but the amount of training they do. Training is something be it sniper or self defense that should be done often, just as with any martial arts or sports, heck anything a person wants to be good at.
Now as for everyday people. As I have said many times on here before, and keeping it brief, a person should practice frequently with whatever weapon they plan to carry to become proficient with it. That does not mean hitting the target, though that is the objective. But to be able to draw off muscle memory, bring the weapon to bear and fire. Also while presenting as small a target as possible and as protected (behind cover) as possible. This means being aware of your surrounding at all times and the persons around you as well and what is behind any target you may have to use force on. And then also when to use force and when not to.
99% of self-defense is NEVER putting yourself in a situation where you need to defend yourself.
Quite true. As someone who’s had martial arts training and been in a few fights, the best self-defense is avoiding dangerous situation.
You can’t always avoid becoming a victim of random violence or crime though, esepecially with how rampant street crime is these days. For those cases you want to be prepared. But in general, know the risk profile of your own activities and limit them accordingly. In my case I decided for myself: don’t right the subway and walk home alone from the station at night (though I was robbed at gunpoint in the subway at daytime, which goes to show it can happen anytime). Don’t go to a convenience store in a meth area at night. Don’t hang out at bars. Don’t drive through Comptom.
> When it comes to women shooters, not sure where you read that about women. But I can tell you, it is talking about snipers or long range target shooting. It has NOTHING to do with the sex of the shooter but the amount of training they do.
If life were an RPG, women would get a base bonus to firearms marksmanship, independent of training, while men wouldn’t. Even if that isn’t true, guns are still physical equalizers, and women aren’t taught to exploit that, despite being taught that men are evil and hunt women.
As to training, guns don’t require nearly the training that martial arts do. I’m not saying firearms training is unnecessary or useless, but a small woman doesn’t need much training with a shotgun to use it to defend herself from a burly dude using his fists. Like the crossbow, training to be effective in home defense can be measured in weeks, not years.
That’s why nobles hated the crossbow so much: they had a monopoly on force until it was invented, and then a peasant with a week or two of crossbow training could take down armored knights who’d trained since childhood.
Okay so I’m another UK resident here and I’m a member of a gun club. I don’t hold a licence so I use a club gun but I know all about the hoops that have to be jumped through to get a licence. One member who recently applied was quizzed about the background of his daughter’s EX-boyfriend that never visited the family home any more.
Historically the armed crime rate in the UK has always been low compared to the US as a whole, though I (unlike many in my country it seems) know that the laws concerning gun owners in the US vary between different states and cities, even when we had no restrictions on firearm ownership at all.
Our laws have changed slowly over the last hundred and twenty years or so and we have gone from a nation where you could walk into a gunsmith and come out with whatever you could afford without any paperwork to one where only a few specific types of firearm are legally available and then only after a long and drawn out process. Each change in our law was slight, first registration, then licencing and finally effective prohibition of many types of firearm. I’ve heard the idea of the slippery slope being labelled as a fallacy but that really is what happened here and that is why whenever I here a gun control advocate in the US claim that they don’t want to ban guns entirely I just don’t believe them.
A recent boast I’ve seen about our gun control laws is that since the 1997 Firearms Acts we have had no mass school shootings. This ignores the fact that before the Dunblane killings that sparked our politicians trying to one-up one another about who could persecute law abiding gun owners the most we didn’t have any either. So our only mass school shooting happened when the types and numbers of firearms that could be owned were limited and to get a licence for the guns used in the killings a person had to prove why they needed them.
One fact that may really blow some people’s minds on both sides of the Atlantic ocean though is that technically under Section 1 of the Firearms Act it is still possible in the UK for a 14 year old to own a semi-automatic rifle with a 100 round drum magazine, folding stock, forward vertical pistol grip and silencer fitted. Remember that the next time someone in the US says how much they envy our largely draconian laws.
Along with that am I not correct in saying while you do not have violent gun crime in the UK very often but you still have plenty of violent crime and some mass incidents in some places? The murder tool just happens to be a knife instead? My point to that is not to slander the UK but to demonstrate that bad people whom are willing to harm others will use whatever tool they can to do so and a gun is not required.
If I recall correctly this happens (just like in the USA) predominantly in the large cities?
My end goal there is to show that there is not a gun or a knife problem in our countries. There is a morality problem where the root cause of violent crime is not the selected tool but the person willing to use the tool as they have no issue in hurting other people for their own personal gain.