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Germans.
Just like in the movies.
Dude, stop with the hate for goodness sakes. You are as bad as a radical leftist. You blame and seem to hate every group you are not in. I am sure they would love for you to think that one race, nationality or skin color is the problem. It’s not. It’s simply people with power and influence and those without. Anyone that challenges that demonic circle of people will have attempts to cut them down and it does not matter where you came from or what you look like.
Dr. Shiva’s main point these days is that yes, life expectancy went up, but now, it is going down again, for a number of reasons. So, what the life expectancy was, is in decline.
not sure if that is true but doesn’t matter, life expectancy today is higher than in 1940. Stick to the subject, I’m not talking about 2050.
The point about France in the 40s was demographics. Demographic representation. It was that from the very beginning. You are preparing to run away again. You already ran to Vkind, earlier, to stand beneath the shadow of a Moderator.
We were talking about comparing life in 1940 and today, demographic representation is only a part of it. But if you wanna talk only about demographic then my answer is yes, the demographic was very onesided white and christian because other people got executed or were second class citizens. Is executing people based on religion, sexuality and ethnicity good or bad? Answer this.
How did I run to Vknid? I’m simultaneously arguing against him, not to the same extent though because he doesn’t seem to align with nazi ideology.
Security and Freedom? With open borders? With Hate speech laws and censorship?
My brother, I am starting to believe you have zero knowledge of nazi Germany or WW2. No, there was not much security or freedom during the deadliest event in history. Having bombs dropping on your background or getting shot is in fact not security. You complain about immigration, but the reason for the mass immigration during this time period because people were getting executed and thair homes bombed to shit. It is not security.
About censorship, please tell me you are not referring to nazi occupation being an ideal place to live for combatting censorship? Just google censorship in Nazi Germany, and compare it to your perceived censorship today. Again, I want you to reply to this.
In London, stabbings are common
Do you even read what I write? You fail to answer my rebuttals every single time and just repeat your statement.
It’s like you say ”chocolate is good for you”, I reply by saying ”chocolate in large amounts make you fat and is not good for you”, and instead of defending your initial argument by something like ”but chocolate relieves stress”, you say ”apples are good” and ”chicken is good”, then later return to repeat ”chocolate is good for you”.
I will answer again, and expect a reply instead of more gish gallop. London in 2023 had 67 deaths by stabbing, a proportion not by immigrants. London in 1940 had bombings which killed 40 000 people, 100 000 injured and millions of homes destroyed. I am asking a simple question. Which is more secure? Please answer the question.
if a white man counters the propaganda, he goes to prison without any charges, and you call that freedom and quality of life.
I would like to see evidence of systemic imprisonment of white people for ”countering propaganda”. But to counter your claim, have you heard about concentration camps? Or prisoners of war? Or Unit 731? Over 6 million people dead from simply existing
Maybe in parts of the west it’s good. Not so for many other places. I am sure Ukraine does not care for 2024 and I doubt the Israelis or Palestinians are fond of 2024 either.
Ukraine was under Nazi occupation and their jewish population got gassed to 1940 and 2024 are both rough times for Ukraine. Palestine I’m not so sure of, I know there was mass immigration of jews during that time.
I am not sure how you define quality of life. And this is something I have put thought into recently. I don’t think quality of life is based very much on longevity or the amount of things you have. If that is how we define quality of life then yes 2024 is great in the west. I think people had far more meaningful live decades ago and this is why so many are miserable today. They have stuff, but no meaning to their lives and they are upset and sad as they don’t know how to obtain it because all the lies of society are not working for them. This leads to hopelessness.
I am using objective metrics which can be measured to conclude that today the quality of life is better. If you want to use subjective measures like people’s happiness then it can’t be determined for sure, but I would be pretty confident in saying that living under war or nazi occupation was not a very hopeful time. And again, it’s fine to believe it was better decades ago, my argument is simply that life was not more secure, free, more hopeful and better during the peak of nazi occupation than today.
One picture of anything can give a person a false idea. This is because as humans we make assumptions as we are intelligent beings we ponder beyond just what we see. We see one puzzle piece and try to construct the whole puzzle around it for understanding. But this does not mean it is propaganda.
I would argue the picture is textbook propaganda. A picture purposefully taken to make everyday life looking cheerful during a time of oppression and famine, with the goal of changing people’s perspective on the country and to encourage people to join the French Volunteers against Bolshevism. I don’t know how much closer you can get to the textbook definition of propaganda. The puzzle piece analogy is not propaganda in itself, but using the puzzle piece method to construct a false image of the state of the country to recruit people is.
Also “wokeness” does not anger me.
I was referring to @comicsgate. I believe one is way too deep in the alt right pipeline and have lost the plot because of the silly culture war thing when they believe terms like nibling or women not having huge mommy milkers in video games because of wokeness is the end of humanity, and then proceed to defend nazi occupation, the deadliest war in history, concentration camps etc only because that time period had less jews and brown people.
It’s just a matter of ethnic and religious bias towards white christians when 2024 is the worst time ever because ”white christians are going to jail for crimes they didn’t commit”, but the holocaust is just a fun little meme. It’s not a matter of virtue or moral justice, it’s a matter of ”my group good, their group bad”.
Fuck it, let’s step into some shit.
Wokeness is a scourge on society and for the first time in many generations quality of life and life expectancy is going DOWN and at a rather alarming rate. This decline will take decades or more to reverse if we are able at all.
The thing about societal change, is the ramification of poor policy takes many years or even decades to manifest, you can’t rid a culture a society has grown into overnight. You can’t suddenly transfer the opportunities and educations squandered on some over to those who would be more grateful and capable. So the fact that things are STARTING to get rough, is a pretty good indication that they could get a lot worse if we start o fix the root issues of subversion this moment. The problem is this decline has snowballed, so many elements of the world are gaining momentum as the wheels of society are now spinning so fast and with so much vigor that you can’t stop them without being destroyed. You being here in this thread throwing all these selective arguments and assertions is a great example of this decay run amuck flinging itself every which way with righteous indignation.
This is a global phenomena having massive toles in every industry of importance: health, science, agriculture, military, travel, commerce, education, entertainment, tech. The world is becoming a shell of what it could have been as gaslighting moralists get on their soap boxes and talk about pedestrian talking points. The entire argument that “Things are better now” is dumb, because OF COURSE it’s better now, our technology has grown by leaps and bounds because of the societal improvements that occurred decades back. The question is, why aren’t we doing better? Where did all the optimism and rising standards go? We’ve more than plateaued , we’re in decline.
What’s your point dude? That because the Germans did fucked up shit decades ago everyone in the world who has a similar complexion has to have their nose rubbed in shit for all eternity? Russia sacrificed more than anyone to fight the Nazi’s, are you about to bend over and worship Putin now? Or do these historical events only drive your narratives when they fit them? Are we going to gloss over the fact that nearly every civilization in all of human history has done terrible acts of violence for millennia? Of course we are.
The reason we have it good today is because for decades people feared for their lives so we made DAMNED sure hard working, smart people were in control. They did such a damned good job that smarmy shit heads like you felt emboldened to get in the way and fuck everything up for everyone.
I have no idea wtf you’re defending, but it seems as though you’re making a mockery of those who solved world hunger, disease, and other key problems of shelter and safety over hundreds of years.
Technical innovation has ensured you can point at any time in history and say “shit was bad back then”, people were bad back then. What’s the point? The world has changed so much and become so insane due to how good we have it that arguments like this become almost meaningless.
You keep pointing figures as if people having an affinity to something great is a bad thing, while clearly having a self fulfilling agenda of your own.
You seem really tied to this woke stuff. What’s so great about it? Who deserved to dig their fingers into this world and shame people out of being able to do hard work?
The entire argument that “Things are better now” is dumb, because OF COURSE it’s better now, our technology has grown by leaps and bounds because of the societal improvements that occurred decades back.
It doesn’t seem to be that obvious to everyone. But yes, I agree that it’s an unnecessary argument since it’s obvious. But if someone here states that the sky isn’t blue then no matter how silly it is, you have to pull out the argument ”the sky is blue”.
What’s your point dude? That because the Germans did fucked up shit decades ago everyone in the world who has a similar complexion has to have their nose rubbed in shit for all eternity?
If you have read my posts here, what part exactly made you come to the conclusion that might possibly be my point?
I will tell you so you don’t have to guess. Regarding this topic, my entire point was to counter @comicsgate ’s implication that life was better in Paris in 1940, under nazi occupation, than it is in modern time because they had less brown people then. And also that the 67 knife deaths in 2023 London might not be the end of the world compared to being bombed during the Blitzkrieg in 1940. If you extrapolate from those statements that my point is to blame or hold white people accountable today, then that is some wild mental gymnastics.
Russia sacrificed more than anyone to fight the Nazi’s, are you about to bend over and worship Putin now?
I am not a big fan of dictators and would rather not worship one.
Are we going to gloss over the fact that nearly every civilization in all of human history has done terrible acts of violence for millennia? Of course we are.
Why in the world would I list up terrible acts of violence during the Renaissance or the Industrial Revolution when the conversation is about comparing quality of life between 1940 and modern day?
I have no idea wtf you’re defending, but it seems as though you’re making a mockery of those who solved world hunger, disease, and other key problems of shelter and safety over hundreds of years.
How did you arrive to that conclusion? Jesus man.
I find it pretty wild that when I take the stance that ”living under the occupation of Nazi Germany in 1940 France was pretty terrible”, I get pulled into a 3 vs 1 conversation and accused of having an agenda against white people and people who solve world hunger and diseases. But if you wanna roll around in the mud, I’m down for it.
It is annoying however, when people do not engage with the arguments of the subject but rather attack values. I experience the same thing when I talk with lefties about Israel vs Palestine or socialism vs capitalism. If I say ”I do not believe socialism is a working concept”, they do not ask why or argue for socialism, they jump immediately to ”oh you hate poor people and want the rich elite to oppress them”.
You seem really tied to this woke stuff.
the term woke is such a nothingburger these days, when every problem in life is because of wokeness. You have people like Jordan Peterson complaining about woke traffic rules.
I do not attend Pride events or anything because they’re pretty cringe, but I do believe in equal rights no matter your gender, ethnicity, religion, sexual orientation, and I think women and men should be able to earn their money however they want as long as it’s legal. I do believe life is better today than in 1940, even if we have more people of color and are contemplating on adding a scary word like nibling into the dictionary. If I am tied to ”this woke stuff”, I suppose I am if you wanna have a straight answer, since everything and everyone people don’t agree with is woke now.
Yeah I can’t say i had the patience to read the past 6 pages of arguments. What’s the point? There really isn’t any nuance to these conversations or interesting points made.
It all boils down to people making straw men of one another and using these knee jerk social judgements to tear people down. People scream “Nazi” people claim bigotry or whatever absolute modern judgements they can and claim victory. That’s the woke paradigm right there, talk in circles long enough about skin colors and Nazis and eventually end the conversation with “everything is racist” and that’s why everything going down the tubes is fine.
Idiocracy kinda hit the nail on the head, everything is going to hell, but our education systems are pumping out so many mindless drones incapable of scrutiny for tyrannical government at large that no one realizes how boned we are.
Glad you think everyone is created equal. We should all aspire to give everyone a fair shake and look beyond our prejudices, whether those be towards outward appearances or surface level ideological perceptions.
“Nobody is equal to anybody. Even the same man is not equal to himself on different days.” — Thomas Sowell
People often confuse the foundational ethos of this nation to be “everyone has to be equal and given equal things, and wrongs of the past entitle me to more sh*t than you.”
But that’s not what the American dream is. The American dream was about people tired of the bullshit, sailing off to bumfuck nowhere to get away from all the taxes and everyone’s noses in their business so they could work hard with other people working hard to make a great society free of tyranny and commies enjoying the fruits of each others hard labor.
And what came of all these crazy mother fuckers telling the King and the Queen to kiss their ass? World peace, radically reduced hunger, the industrial revolution, a new golden age of cultural, medical, and technological ascent.
And we’re about to throw it all away with the same up your ass in your business, elitist high and might moralists dictating hard working talented people aren’t allowed to steer the ship any more because they “had their turn”.
News flash, hard working, talented, independent people of all creeds busting their ass for a small sliver of all of human history brought more peace and prosperity in a gnat hair’s breadth of time than all the heavy handed social governances that have plagued society, forcing the in-crowd elites and their sycophants into all positions of wealth and power.
I think people naturally live within their current reality and perceive everything through it. This is no different than an animal knowing it’s territory so it can operate efficiently within it. It is a purely human quality to do some sort of thought experiments where you try to consider different peoples, in different places and at different times. But a lot of folks don’t put forth that effort.
This entire practice of gazing into the past through the lens of the present is a fools errand. Unless you are VERY knowledgeable about a place and time period you don’t know what’s going on there really. Sure, we can say very easily that killing lots of people is evil. We can say that slavery was a bad thing. But even with slavery, as relatively recent as that was, most people today don’t get it. They think Lincoln was a saint. He was not at all. They think the Civil War was entirely over slavery, it was not. And I think most folks believe slavery happened because of racism. This also I don’t think to be true. Racism (IE hatred) came after to a large degree.
The only reason this nonsense goes on is so the past can be erased and that is a mechanism all communists use when they begin to take power. Mao did this before he killed millions. Several of the radical Islam groups would do this when they took power as well and that’s just within the last 2 decades.
At the end of the day. many people don’t know what is what about things. I am not saying I do either. But at least I try to research and assume I know squat until I do.
The whole “colonizer” thing is so historically idiotic it hurts me.
Hitler was NOT the pinnacle of evil. He is just the most recent. The point there being he was not an anomaly. He is what happens every so often when good people let bad things happen.
People in the west think the world operates a certain way. People outside the west KNOWS how it works. If we don’t stop celebrating ignorance we are going to find out exactly what reality without law and order is. It’s already starting.
Yeah I can’t say i had the patience to read the past 6 pages of arguments. What’s the point? There really isn’t any nuance to these conversations or interesting points made.
I understand and agree, I just think it’s not very charitable to skip what I said and create a false conclusion of my point in your mind to attack. It’s like punching ghosts.
People scream “Nazi” people claim bigotry or whatever absolute modern judgements they can and claim victory. That’s the woke paradigm right there, talk in circles long enough about skin colors and Nazis and eventually end the conversation with “everything is racist” and that’s why everything going down the tubes is fine.
I also agree that inflation of terms is unfortunate. During the era when making fun of SJWs around 2016 the term bigot and nazi were tossed by far left lunatics to the point that it lost its meaning. I feel like the pendulum has swung and when in 2016 everyone laughed at the blue haired radfems claiming everyone and everything is because of nazis, today it has kind of reversed and people laugh at overweight guys with receding hairlines complaining how every problem is because of ”wokeness” and how their video game characters aren’t hot enough.
Toxic masculinity is another expression that has changed its meaning over time. Originally, it was an expression to call out the standard society puts on males to never show emotions or ask for help, and be stoic and ”just suck it up, you’re a man” which often leads to unfortunate consequences like anxiety, depression and in the worst case suicide. The expression is not about how being masculine is toxic against others, which people associate it with today, but that certain traits and standards put on males are toxic and harmful for themselves.
Anyway, regarding the nazi term, it has been inflated for sure, but when a dude argues living under nazi occupation was better, and especially when the justification for the argument is what made nazis repulsive then I do believe it’s fitting to say cool it with the nazi remarks.
Totally fair, and I think we can all agree that it’s been shitty of late to be labeled whatever boogeyman the other side thinks we belong!
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